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Author Topic: Woah, workshop?  (Read 37 times)

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Offline JamminR

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Woah, workshop?
« on: November 18, 2015, 07:38:44 pm »
Ok, so, overall I like the idea of Steam Workshop, but, I thought we weren't storing our code there due to legalities of Valve owning our code versus our CC licensing of it, and conflicts there-of.
(No, I've not even glanced at the legalese of the links provided to me re: Steam workshop.)
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Offline MrPresident

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Re: Woah, workshop?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2015, 09:30:01 pm »
As far as I know, we're not.
If it's on workshop, someone must have uploaded it without permission.

Offline Stickly Man!

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Re: Woah, workshop?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2015, 09:58:58 pm »
Mr. President- there is in fact a Workshop upload, and we did in fact add you and JamminR as collaborators. :)

The main reason we set this up is because I pointed out these unofficial uploads to Megiddo:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=379185562
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=379186890

These Workshop uploads of ULX and ULib have 6700 and 3100 subscribers respectively, which is a decent amount. The uploader must have made some changes to get it working without any txt files included, but a quick peruse through the changes didn't show anything out of the ordinary, except that it is rather out of date. Then again, so is our release version. :P

------

Skimming through the Steam Subscriber Agreement, sections 6A and 6B:
http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

Essentially, the main concern is likely to be this line here (in regards to generic User-Generated Content in general, not just Steam Workshop uploads):
Quote
You grant Valve and its affiliates the worldwide, non-exclusive, right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, transcode, translate, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and publicly perform, your User Generated Content, and derivative works of your User Generated Content, in connection with the operation and promotion of the Steam site.

Now, I'm certainly not a legal expert, but to me, this means that we give Steam the right to actually distribute our content- this covers all of the legal mumbo-jumbo terms in terms of electronic transferring of data. The create derivative works part is further explained in section 2B with regards to Steam Workshop uploads:
Quote
(a) Valve may make modifications necessary to make your Contribution compatible with Steam and the Workshop functionality or user interface, and (b) Valve or the applicable developer may make modifications to Workshop Contributions that are accepted for in-Application distribution as it deems necessary or desirable to enhance gameplay.

And finally, one last thing they note which makes me feel much more at ease with the whole thing:
Quote
You may, in your sole discretion, choose to remove a Workshop Contribution from the applicable Workshop pages. If you do so, Valve will no longer have the right to use, distribute, transmit, communicate, publicly display or publicly perform the Workshop Contribution, except that (a) Valve may continue to exercise these rights for any Workshop Contribution that is accepted for distribution in-game or distributed in a manner that allows it to be used in-game, and (b) your removal will not affect the rights of any Subscriber who has already obtained access to a copy of the Workshop Contribution.

------

Megiddo and I are working through a few changes to ULX/ULib that we should probably make you guys aware of. I wanted to add some kind of update check and notification to let users know when their version of ULX or ULib was out of date. To accommodate this, we've split ULib and ULX into their own repositories, and then we've added Git Hooks for our Git clients to automatically update a date (unix timestamp) in a file. See the following:
https://github.com/TeamUlysses/ulx/blob/master/ulx.build
https://github.com/TeamUlysses/ulx/blob/master/.git_hooks/post-commit

We can then use this as a quick HTTP fetch check to see if the build timestamp listed on GitHub matches the local one on the client, and then notify about updates. Workshop updates happen automatically, so that should help our goal in keeping users up-to-date. Note that we will differentiate between Release and Dev installations when doing update checking, and workshop will always be our latest Release build.

Additionally, our version notation is changing slightly, mostly to fix the old SVN <Unknown Revision> issue- Megiddo made a quick Google doc to note specifics, but the general idea would be:
Release version: ULX v3.41
Git version: ULX v3.41d (18 Nov 2015)
  - Latest release version plus a date applied-- This version would be newer than release 3.41
Workshop version: ULX v3.41w
  - Identical to Release version. Since workshop downloads are much harder to modify, this version can be noted as likely not to have any core ULX files modified.

Also, Megiddo has created a Trello board to help us manage various ULX3, ULib, and ULX4 tasks. I think we should get you guys access as well, but I'll leave that up to Megiddo.

Wow, I ended up ranting about a lot of stuff. This tends to happen when we get free time and actually get to do some development! :)
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Offline MrPresident

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Re: Woah, workshop?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2015, 10:39:09 pm »
Just saw the email.
Personally, I like Workshop.

As long as it'll work for us as a platform, I think we should embrace it fully!

Offline JamminR

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Re: Woah, workshop?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2015, 03:29:10 pm »
Now that we're officially on workshop, are we goiing to take any recourse to have the old/broken/non-official releases removed?
We really don't know what said unofficial releases may do, and can only hope the worst is that they are out of date.
Garrysmod.com uploads, we used to be able to send email and, surprisingly to me at times, actually get content removed.

I just found a 'report user' link, but doing that really doesn't have 'they release our work without our permission' category
Could possibly use the impersonating another user.

Harassment
Impersonating another user
Offensive Profile or Avatar
Offensive Screenshots or Art
Spamming Invites
Spamming Advertisements/Links
Suspected Hijacker or Phishing
Attempted Trade Scam
Suspected Cheater
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 03:53:28 pm by JamminR »
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Offline Megiddo

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Re: Woah, workshop?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2015, 03:34:05 pm »
Yes, we can report them. The workshop is moderated by Facepunch staff (not Steam), so I don't see that we will have any issues getting it taken down.

We are not yet live on workshop. We need to shed all *.txt files currently in the projects to make it work. For ULib, that is no problem at all. For ULX, the config files and MOTD need some other mechanism to get deployed. I've asked Stickly to make a MOTD that we will host on ulyssesmod.net to use as the default. Sorry JamminR, your MOTD I shamelessly stole all those years ago may finally die...
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Offline JamminR

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Re: Woah, workshop?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2015, 03:55:50 pm »
Wait, mine? I had no clue. Honestly.

I look forward to our growth.

Also, let's remain civil and ask the user through message first.
We can hope those who are doing it will respond nicely.
"Though a program be but three lines long, someday it will have to be maintained." -- The Tao of Programming

Offline Stickly Man!

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Re: Woah, workshop?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2015, 03:15:46 pm »
I agree- let's ask nicely, but if they don't oblige, then we can likely send a PM to Robotboy directly on FP or Steam- he seems to be the one that does most of the workshop report managing. If that fails, then we can use the reporting feature.
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Offline JamminR

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Re: Woah, workshop?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2015, 04:53:40 pm »
Mostly off topic- I went searching to see if maybe I did know Megiddo was using some of my html code in motd.txt as, at least, discussed here somewhere.
I never did find mention and really don't remember (and no, it does not hurt my feelings to know it requires change)

While searching, I stumbled across our historical initial discussions regarding changing ULib/ULX's command set up from straight function to initial 'objects',  from 2008.
/index.php/topic,3552.0.html#msg12429 />
I just want to say - one thing we've always done just awesomely to survive for the past years as team members have come and gone is respect each others opinions as a "team".
Feeling a bit nostalgic now as you can tell, but wanted to point out how awesome we are.
Thank you all for being mature in the Gmod world and respecting each other.

I'm excited about our new changes and directions, just as I was in 2008.
*shudder* That seems so long ago - so much has changed in my life since then, as I know many of yours has.

"Though a program be but three lines long, someday it will have to be maintained." -- The Tao of Programming

Offline Megiddo

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Re: Woah, workshop?
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2015, 07:36:02 am »
Hey, thanks for the link, JamminR!

It's really cool to see where seven years has taken us. My concept for ULX translating a user "command" language into a "lua" functional language has remained essentially the same since then. Take a look at the API we're aiming at for ULX4:

Code: Lua
  1. local cmd = plugin:Command("command", ulx.command)
  2. cmd:Hint("Hint text")
  3. cmd:Access("admin")
  4. cmd:Args({
  5.         ArgPlayer(),
  6.         ArgTime():Optional():min(0),
  7.         ArgString():Optional():Greedy():RestrictToCompletes():Completes(tbl)
  8. })
  9. cmd:Restrictions({
  10.         RestrictToOnceEvery("1 hour"),
  11.         RestrictToTime("1500-1700"),
  12.         RestrictToAbsenceOf("%superadmin"),
  13.         RestrictToPresenceOf("#user"),
  14.         RestrictToCustom(function(ply, ...)
  15.                 if ply:IsAlive() then
  16.                         return false, "you must be alive to run this command"
  17.                 else
  18.                         return true
  19.                 end
  20.         end)
  21. })
  22. return cmd

The 'restrictions' portion is the newest bit from ULX3. It offers ways to restrict commands that aren't necessarily linked to the arguments themselves, or are looking at a broader picture. E.G., 'restrict to once every...' could be used for the ULX voting system so they don't spam, but now it's easily used by other commands. The 'restrict to absence of...' can allow operators to ban if no admins are otherwise present, etc.

---

Also from the post, it's interesting that we never actually implemented unit testing (but we are with ULX4), and logging errors/warnings is still something I'm terrible with. But, we did implement the "CheckArgs" feature and it has worked fantastically; I'm actually fairly surprised that's not something that others are picking up on.

---

Finally, on the MOTD. Maybe my memory is fuzzy, but I think you designed it for your own server, and ULX did not have a good MOTD (or maybe none at all?). If I recall correctly, I integrated it into ULX without even consulting you first. And... I've always felt kind of bad about that. But, good to know you haven't held it against me all these years.
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Offline Stickly Man!

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Re: Woah, workshop?
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2015, 11:02:55 am »
Megiddo, heads up for potential changes to workshop mods, something about "ISteamUGC"
https://github.com/Facepunch/garrysmod-requests/issues/404
https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1485127&p=49159581&viewfull=1#post49159581
https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1485127&p=49161547&viewfull=1#post49161547

Robotboy wants to have it out within the next couple months. We probably won't have to change anything for this, but it's good to keep informed about it. :P
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