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Author Topic: New admin mods, future of ULX  (Read 256 times)

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Offline Stickly Man!

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New admin mods, future of ULX
« on: May 13, 2014, 01:02:35 pm »
Here's a couple new admin mods that have recently popped up:
CAT - Cat's Administration Tools
Moderator
EDIT: Oh look, I found another one- ServerBase - A simple but effective server tools addon

Of course, this has spurred many "Which admin mod is best?" threads:
Garry's mod 13 - Best Working Administration Mod?
What's a good Adminstration Tool for CW:HL2RP?

And, quite frankly, the several vocal people who post in these threads who think they know everything and think they have authority in all things lua really piss me off. (JamminR, you're more than welcome to take a break from the forums- I wouldn't blame you ;) )

Anyways- that aside, there are some valid complaints about performance issues (not as bad as they're suggesting) and the slightly messy codebase (comes from years of maintaining the code). As you all are aware, Me and Megiddo are both getting married, and our free time is dwindling into nothingness. I may have some time once I get settled down in a couple months, but I cant say for Megiddo. We're both still interested in the Ulysses project, but time and dwindling motivation due to an annoying community is making it extremely difficult.

I'm on the fence here- half of me is "Meh", and the other half of me goes "Oooh shiny code want to work! :D". So, I have three proposals for the future of ULX:


The obvious one is to let it slowly die off while still maintaining bugfixes for major things. Maybe an occasional new feature here and there, but unlikely. I think we're heading in this direction if we don't address it soon.


The next proposal is to continue focusing on trying to improve what we have- adding SQL support, better ban interface, etc., and hope for the best. Perhaps we can get a few more hands on deck to help out, too. (I'm looking at you, Mr. President :P)


Proposal #3 is the big one- a complete overhaul of ULX (and ULib?). I'm on the fence about this one (As in, I'd love to do it, not sure if time will permit). I would like to sit down and have meetings with all of the Ulysses developers and create design documents and specifications for the entirety of the project. This would help to reduce spaghetti/confusing code and give us good documentation that can be easily updated/maintained for people to use. This would be really good experience for software engineering in general! (For some reason at my current job, we don't do a lot of engineering, just a lot of jumping into it :P). Additionally, planning this out would give us a good idea of how much work is involved, and give us an opportunity to back out if we can't make it. Also, this way we can better divy up tasks, and even bring on some new coders (outsourcing!) to contribute to the project, and the core team can focus most on management. I think it would be a fun experiment, or at least good experience with project management, anyhow.


For proposals 2 and 3, I'd like to find some of the more helpful members of the community to bring together ideas and talent. I'm liking the pair behind OpenSteam <Ulysses|Facepunch>, and their GitHub activity looks fairly impressive. (Disclaimer: I really should see how their module works before saying anything.) They would probably be good to help implement banning system with global DB support, and of course, their web interface could be vastly improved and become an official module for ULX.

iSnipeu has been a good contributor and community member as well, not sure if he's still active. I'd be welcome to bringing him on.


Anyways, sorry- this is a pretty big thought dump on my part. As you can tell, I still want to be active and involved with a project like this, more for the experience rather than the appreciation from the userbase. I welcome any input or feedback from all of you- brainstorm away!
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Offline Stickly Man!

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Re: New admin mods, future of ULX
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2014, 01:17:15 pm »
Welp, my brainstorming got ahead of me. I'm making a super-optimistic-hopeful-happy-funtime list of things ULX should include in order to be a target for admins. These are geared to address the "concerns" I see most people bring up.

Core administration functionality
Targeting, commands, modules, mostly the stuff ULib handles. Pretty much a lot of the great base features ULX already provides.

Easy installation and module support
Perhaps a hosted repository of official (unofficial?) plugins. Giving users the option to pick and choose individual modules to install would address the "too bloated" concerns, while showing people the available options ULX has to offer.

Fully modular design
The core of ULX should remain static, hopefully lightweight and simple. Any addition, such as the GUI or commands, etc. should be treated as something that can be removed and ULX will still work. Current users don't know that they can remove /sh/fun.lua to remove the fun commands...

Well-designed, simple interface
I'd handle this one, probably. I hate to have to rewrite XGUI, but it is sorely needed. (Now that I know what I'm doing though, it should be much easier). Should be resizeable and stylish, because people like that sort of thing.

Web Module, multiple server user/bans syncing.
Quite simply, a way to interface 1 or more servers with a backend. I can't stress how useful admins will find a web-accessible admin mod. Still, this portion should be optional for the user, and hopefully this will be simple with the help from the OpenSteam guys.

<list to be expanded later, probably>

One last concern to address is our hook priority feature (or as other people see it, tainting default code). For some reason because ulib shows up in a stack trace for their problems, everyone hates ulx. I'm thinking the startup sequence for Gmod has improved that a feature like this can be avoided.. I hope.

Okay, I promise I'm done now :P
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Offline Stickly Man!

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Re: New admin mods, future of ULX
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2014, 01:52:12 pm »
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Offline Megiddo

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Re: New admin mods, future of ULX
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2014, 07:12:49 pm »
Me and Megiddo are both getting married, and our free time is dwindling into nothingness.

To be clear, not to each other.

Thanks for writing these posts Stickly, it's definitely a lot to think over, but it's good to see you're thinking in the same direction I am. For those interested, OTLib was/is the spiritual successor to ULX. It was/is my sandbox to test ideas out that I wanted to do in ULX. I still have piles of notes of things that I'd like to do for ULX, and some of those manifested themselves in the skeleton OTLib implementation.

Looking forward to talking to y'all tonight!
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Offline Stickly Man!

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Re: New admin mods, future of ULX
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2014, 06:40:57 pm »
I did enjoy our meeting! We'll have to schedule another one soon, I'm getting ansty for this rewrite haha

Going back to Facepunch-- I cannot believe the replies Megiddo got. It's the same two people whining every chance they get. So.. I replied. A long one, too. I tried to be reasonable, so I hope it turned out okay! :P
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1389029&page=2


In other news, I took a look at some of iSnipeu's posts on Facepunch, and.. he seems to be a more colorful person at the most. A few f-bombs here and there. I'm sure he's still relatively mature, and would probably handle our rules here just fine, but.. I'm going to put him lower on the priority list for now.

I did talk to my brother Thomas (aka Zyklus), and I think the idea of engineering a new ULX got him a bit excited. We discussed some of the finer points of the ULX core, and what we'd need to do to rewrite, and I'm hoping he decides to join on to help us out. At any rate, he definitely has the free time that we lack! :D I'll be discussing this with him more in the next while, so, we'll see how it goes. Remember, this isn't a confirmation, just a hopeful prospect!
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Offline JamminR

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Re: New admin mods, future of ULX
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2014, 11:15:52 pm »
Nice write up Stickly.
Great how you linked all the info in your FP post.
Unfortunately, It's FP.
There's been no public response as of my review, but I learned a few years ago when I posted in a "competitors" admin mod who's author was claiming several features thet were using were "NEW" when they were indeed used and included in ULX for many previous years that people on FP don't like facts and truth.
Needless to say, I pretty much stopped going there. I think your links were the first time I've even looked in about 4 years, with exception to a few 'security' related posts here that users made about ULX being used in exploits (which ended up being other hackz just using ULX because, well, we make it easier from remote console to adminstrate too)
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Offline Megiddo

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Re: New admin mods, future of ULX
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2014, 03:29:26 pm »
What's with Mors Quaedam's relentless pursuit against ULX? He definitely seems to be leading the dissent in several threads with others just following his cues. Bah.

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Offline Stickly Man!

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Re: New admin mods, future of ULX
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2014, 04:22:51 pm »
Seems like he's just opinionated and fairly new to the Garry's Mod scene.. His early run in with ULX can be seen here: /index.php/topic,5879.0.html
code-gs is another name I keep seeing against ULX... hopefully my reply helped them be better informed, at least.
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Offline Stickly Man!

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Re: New admin mods, future of ULX
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2014, 10:44:45 am »
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1395593
lol, another thread, this time with zerothefallen!

Anyways, Zyklus has expressed interest in beginning the ULX rewrite.. This weekend! :D Megiddo, can we get him access to the Team Ulysses section of the forum so we can start brainstorming with him?
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Offline Stickly Man!

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Re: New admin mods, future of ULX
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2014, 11:06:36 am »
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Offline Megiddo

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Re: New admin mods, future of ULX
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2014, 10:56:15 am »
:)
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Offline Stickly Man!

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Re: New admin mods, future of ULX
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2014, 12:13:55 pm »
As always, I like to keep an eye on upcoming admin mods: Here's one I found called "Onion" which looks to be a WIP with a few posts of information:
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1381547&p=44681054#post44681054
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1405662&p=45356327#post45356327
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1405662&p=45369057#post45369057
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1405662&p=45376347#post45376347
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1405662&p=45381990#post45381990


Additionally, on a more interesting note, I happen to have been Steam friends for several years with a LemonPunch server owner (not sure if he's in charge of the whole thing), and he handles distribution of ServerGuard. We got chatting yesterday for just a little bit about things, but I may be able to take a look at ServerGuard, so that's cool! If you guys have any questions about their mod, I'd be happy to pass them along.
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Re: New admin mods, future of ULX
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2014, 11:49:01 pm »
If y'all have been paying attention- the "kicking yourself causes the server to crash" was not actually an issue with ULX, it's Garry's Mod itself. I documented the problem below, explained how I "fixed" it in ULX, and also mentioned how my fix wouldn't be stable unless we had our hook priority. :P Proof that it was useful! Hopefully the FP community processes that well lol.

http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1374457&p=45394628&viewfull=1#post45394628
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Offline Megiddo

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Re: New admin mods, future of ULX
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2014, 04:50:05 pm »
The various sound effects for commands is an interesting idea. Not sure if I'm a fan of Onion's ice model for freezing players. That seems... awkward. :P
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Offline Stickly Man!

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Re: New admin mods, future of ULX
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2014, 02:38:15 pm »
He's added a notification system that looks quite interesting, though:
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1405662&p=45456695&viewfull=1#post45456695
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